How Much Money Do You Need to Be Happy?

The
‘Cult
of
Never
Enough’

Christine
Benz:
It’s
great
to
have
you
here,
and
congratulations
on
the
book.
We
want
to
talk
about
the
book
in-depth.
You
talk
about
what
you
call
the
“cult
of
never
enough.”
You
have
these
great
turns
of
phrases
in
the
book.
Can
you
describe
what
that
cult
is
about?

Manisha
Thakor:
Absolutely.
There
are
three
ways
that
I
think
about
the
“cult
of
never
enough”
in
terms
of
defining
it.
The
first
is
this
feeling
that
no
matter
how
much
money
you
earn,
how
many
accomplishments
you
achieve,
or
how
much
praise
you
receive,
it’s
never
quite
enough
to
make
you
feel
whole
inside
because
the
finish
line
keeps
moving.
Then
the
second
piece
that
defines
in
my
mind
the
“cult
of
never
enough”
is
that
you’ve
subconsciously
embraced
societal
messages
that
are
telling
you
that
the
answer
to
virtually
anything
that
ails
you
is
more –
do
more,
be
more.

And
then,
the
final
component
of
being
a
member
of
the
“cult
of
never
enough”
is
this
feeling
where
no
matter
how
many
times
you
try
and
put
into
practice
things
like
gratitude
lists,
meditating,
and
reading
books
on
positive
psychology,
you
still
feel
like
a
human
doing
versus
a
human
being.
And
the
manifestation,
the
outward
manifestation
of
being
stuck
in
the
cult
can
be
anything
from
extreme
workaholism
to
extreme
perfectionism.
But
the
bottom
line
and
the
reason
it’s
so
detrimental
to
our
life
satisfaction
is
that
it
leads
to
a
really
toxic
relationship
with
work,
money,
accomplishments,
and
success.

What
is
Enough?

CB:
That
comes
through
loud
and
clear
in
the
book.
I
feel
like
this
concept
of
what’s
enough
is
coming
up
a
lot
in
our
cultural
conversation.
Of
course,
Jack
Bogle
wrote
a
book
called Enough in
2009,
but
it
seems
to
be
coming
up
even
more.
Do
you
think
it’s
Covid-related
that
people
are
thinking
big
thoughts
about
life
and
what
they’re
doing
in
the
wake
of
[the
pandemic]?

MT:
I
love
that
you
asked
that
because
you’re
right,
this
phrase
“what
is
enough?”
this
question,
it’s
being
asked,
it’s
just
floating
through
the
zeitgeist
in
so
many
manners.

Yes,
I
do
think
Covid-19
played
a
role
in
it
because
it
was
like
a
snow
globe
for
pretty
much
everybody.
It
shook
our
worlds
upside
down.
Whenever
you
have
that
kind
of
change,
it
causes
you
to
ask
questions.
But
I
also
think
there’s
something
else
going
on.
I
recently
saw
a
clip,
I
think
it
was
on
Instagram
Reels,
where
Jim
Carrey
was
saying,
“very
few
actors
will
say
this,
but
I’m
done.
I’m
not
going
to
make
any
more
films.
Well,
maybe
if
something
truly
mind-blowing
comes,
but
I’ve
got
enough.”
You’re
seeing
this
with
athletes
who
are
saying,
“you
know
what?
I
have
accomplished
a
lot
and
I’m
ready
to
move
on
to
the
next
chapter.”
So,
I
think
it’s
this
combination
of
being
forced
to
rethink
big
issues,
realising
maybe
what
you
might
be
missing
during
Covid-19
where
things
were
so
shut
down;
but
also
there’s
something
else
that’s
going
on
and
I
can’t
quite
put
my
finger
on
it,
but
I’m
seeing
signs
of
this
questioning
everywhere.
Maybe
at
the
end
of
the
day,
it’s
just
exhaustion,
sheer
exhaustion
from
being
on
this
24/7
hamster
wheel
of
hustle
culture.

Did
We
Overcorrect
Our
Spending?

CB:
A
follow-up
question
is,
I
feel
like
maybe
we’ve
overcorrected.
There
had
been
all
this
soul-searching
in
the
depths
of
Covid-19,
and
people
were
spending
a
lot
of
time
at
home
with
their
near
and
dearest.
Now
it’s
like
this
revenge
travel
thing.
I
feel
like
it’s
spend,
spend,
spend,
spend.
Do
you
sense
that
maybe
we’re
going
back
in
the
other
direction
and
just
hopping
right
back
on
that
treadmill?

MT:
I
do
sense
that.
I
think
the
reason
is
that
the
pull
is
so
strong
and
the
types
of
things
that
I
observed
happening
during
Covid-19
and
the
types
of
things
that
I’m
seeing
right
now
in
wellness-at-work
programs
are
really
well-intentioned:
gratitude
lists,
meditation,
focusing
on
positive
psychology,
reading
positive
psychology
books.
But
the
issue
is
that
those
things
are
band
aids,
very
useful
band
aids,
but
they’re
not
addressing
the
core
wound,
and
that’s
why
I
think
we’re
getting
so
swept
back
up
into
this
business
as
usual
at
the
pace
of
speed
of
life
because
we
lack
a
framework
for
thinking
about
and
encouragement
for
thinking
about
why
we’re
behaving
this
way.
That’s
why
I
wrote
the
book.

When
is
it
Time
For
a
Change?

CB:
What
are
the
signs
that
it’s
time
for
a
change,
that
you’re
on
this
treadmill
you
need
to
get
off
or
at
least
slow
it
down?
How
can
people
be
preemptive
about
that?
I
think
sometimes
people
wait
until
there’s
a
health
crisis,
or
they
get
divorced,
or
something
really
bad
happens
in
their
life
before
they
start
doing
some
soul-searching
about
all
this.

MT: The
clearest
signals
that
I
see
are,
one,
you
can’t
mentally
disconnect
from
work
–you’re
taking
a
hike,
you’re
on
vacation,
you
are
with
your
kids
watching Frozen for
the
14th
time
and
your
mind
is
drifting
to
work
constantly.
Another
very
clear
one
is
it’s
affecting
your
relationships,
your
spouse
feeling
like
you
don’t
have
enough
time
together,
your
kids
saying
“mum,
why
are
you
always
traveling,
why
can’t
you
be
here?”
Or
the
same
thing
for
Daddy.
And
then,
the
one
that
oftentimes
slams
us
into
the
wall
is
that
we
get
sick.
The
easy
answer
to
how
to
prevent
it
is
to
adopt
a
mindset
of
valuing
emotional
wealth.

There
are
some
wonderful
sheets
you
can
find
on
the
internet
if
you
just
Google
“values
exercise”
where
they
list
a
hundred
different
values
on
a
piece
of
paper
and
you
circle
20
that
mean
something
to
you,
and
then
you
narrow
it
down
to
10,
and
you
ultimately
identify
like
the
top
three
or
five
that
you
want
to
be
your
North
Stars
guiding
your
activities.
And
when
you
have
a
sense
of
that,
whether
it’s
family
or
self-care
or
community
or
whatever
those
values
are,
that
can
help
you
preempt.

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